Equal opportunities: Judith Sanders lets women invest

Judith Sanders (49) spent years working in what she refers to as a ‘masculine environment’. As an asset manager, she was one of the few women in her field for a long time. Her female clients were few and far between. “I decided to find out how we could change that.”

This resulted in her book Zal ík het anders doen? Waarom vrouwen beter zijn met geld, which was published in 2017. “I was subsequently approached by ABN AMRO and started working for the bank in 2018. I immediately felt at home. The ratio of men to women was much better than I had been used to.”

The bank’s vision

Equal opportunities are key throughout ABN AMRO’s detailed diversity and inclusion policy. Female colleagues and clients must feel seen, heard, and valued. However, according to the bank, the financial sector is still far too male oriented.

“We want our products and services to appeal to both men and women. This is reflected in every tier of the organisation. In HR campaigns and on the website, where all the photos used to feature men. But also in our recruitment process. Our aim is to hire more women. We try to make our job adverts gender-sensitive and ensure that both a man and a woman are present at job interviews. By 2025, women should occupy 35% of our top positions.”

What does equal opportunities mean to you?

“It means that everyone in the workplace can achieve whatever they want. The main thing is that all jobs within an organisation are open to everyone. Men, women and everyone in between. Financial equality is another vital aspect. I want women to be aware of money matters and not reliant on their partner. I still regularly see women who are left destitute when their marriage fails. Especially if they have always worked part-time and have accrued less pension and savings.”

Judith wants women to put their money to better use. One of the ways to do so is investing. “For example, I sometimes meet women in top positions with substantial savings. I try to encourage them to invest. It’s definitely the best option with the current rate of inflation.”

Have you ever encountered inequality?

“I came across some unpleasant situations in my last job. In 2008, I was expecting my first daughter. We were in the middle of the financial crisis; the stock exchange was having a hard time. But I obviously had to take maternity leave. One of my male colleagues was not amused. He accused me of ‘abandoning a sinking ship’, and leaving my colleagues to clean up the mess. What was I supposed to do? The baby wasn’t going to wait. Luckily I’ve got thick skin. I’ve learned to give as good as I get.”

Judith also comes across prejudice in her private life. “I work and my husband takes care of the children. You wouldn’t believe the comments I get…” According to Judith, the financial world still holds very traditional views. “Women work less, men work and know more. I want to change this view.”

How do you deal with inequality?

“By doing what I’m doing now: writing books and giving lectures. By raising awareness, and bringing about change in a positive way.”

How can we achieve equal opportunities?

“By encouraging organisations to appoint more women to financial positions. Quotas would help. Not as a permanent measure, but temporarily to get things moving in the right direction. But we must make sure that women can take care of themselves financially too. I do this by giving presentations about investing aimed at women, both inside and outside the bank.”

Why are equal opportunities important?

“Equality between men and women is not only important at the individual level, but at the economic level too. If more women were financially independent, that would have an impact on society as a whole.”

In 2021, SEO Amsterdam Economics conducted a study commissioned by ABN AMRO into the importance of gender equality in the workplace. “Guess what? If we were to share paid and unpaid work equally between men and women for the next ten years, the gross domestic product would grow by €10.8 billion. That works out at €1,051 per household per year. It also narrows the pay gap between the genders, which means more financial independence for women. Benefits all round.”

Gender equality also has a positive effect on a company’s financial performance, explains Judith. “Organisations with a good balance of men and women, including women in top positions, appear to show better financial results than companies with less diversity at the top.”

Dare to dream

“For years, I have been saying that we really need to stimulate women to take more interest in money matters. Nobody took me seriously for a long time. I wouldn’t have dared to dream that things could progress as far as they have. That I’m now showing women how to invest, that so many of my colleagues and clients are women. And that I’m now working for an organisation that treats equality as a priority. Here at the bank, I can be the same Judith that I am in my private life.”

This interview is the first in a series of interviews about equal opportunities. We will be talking to various colleagues about the obstacles that we still need to overcome, both as a bank and as a society.