Interview with our Supervisory Board Chairman

How do you look at the bank’s performance in 2023?

“On balance, 2023 was a successful year. If you look at the financial performance, it was a great year. But we have to be realistic: part of that performance was due to external developments, as higher interest rates continued to support our net interest income.

At the same time, the external environment created challenges that the bank managed very well. Its prudence during the Covid crisis and since the war in Ukraine have resulted in an comfortable position as far as loan-loss provisions are concerned. Also, the bank was successful on the commercial side. In corporate banking, its focus on accelerating the sustainability transition continued to resonate with clients. Especially in the past two years, ABN AMRO has been able to regain a very attractive position in this market.”

It is over three years since ABN AMRO presented its strategy to become a personal bank in the digital age. How is the bank doing?

“We are on the right track. The bank has made great strides forward under Robert Swaak’s leadership. The bank is in good shape and has a strong focus on clients’ interests in markets where we have a right to win. That’s why we’re extremely happy that Robert has agreed to stay on as the CEO for another four years. I’m also pleased with the Dutch State’s decision to start reducing its stake again for the first time since 2017. It’s a sign that they believe the bank has developed in such a way that it no longer needs the State as a shareholder. But while that’s something to be proud of, it doesn’t mean we can lean back and relax.”

What makes you say that? Where does the bank need to step up?

“Especially in Personal & Business Banking, we continue to have very low Net Promoter Scores. This seems to be a very sticky issue. When I talk to clients, they seem to be satisfied with the bank. But the scores are still very low and have been low for quite some time. We have to look very carefully at how we can improve them. We will only succeed as a personal bank in the digital age if clients value our services and continue to see us as a trusted partner.

What the Supervisory Board follows closely was the increase in risk-weighted assets in 2023. This was very much linked to data issues and the complexity of ABN AMRO’s legacy organisation. If you don’t have certain data on a client’s collateral for instance, the regulator assumes that there is no collateral. That means you have to apply higher risk weights to assets, which limits the bank’s lending capacity.”

How do you look at the bank’s leadership team? Are they doing enough to tackle these issues?

“I’m very positive about the leadership team. They are well suited to the job, they have the right energy levels and they are increasingly working together as a good team. Obviously, we always want them to go faster. I wish, for example, that we could have speeded up morein resolving legacy issues such as the AML remediation programme or the data problems I just mentioned. Our role as the Supervisory Board is then to challenge the Executive Board. Why haven’t these issues been resolved yet? What can you do to avoid such situations in the future? What needs to change?

Sometimes there are impediments to moving faster. The current leadership team inherited, for example, a relatively complex organisation. But it is working very hard to streamline the bank’s processes, reduce complexity and create a more accountable, more entrepreneurial culture. The focus is certainly there. There can be no doubt about that. We have the right people who are doing the right things, but it’s a long road to go.”

Following the appointments of Carsten Bittner and Ton van Nimwegen, the majority of the Executive Board now consists of people from outside the bank. What’s your view on that?

“First of all, it’s important to have people coming from outside from time to time because they introduce new ways of thinking. I am very pleased that Ferdinand Vaandrager was appointed from within the bank. I would like to see more strong internal candidates,however in the past management didn’t devote as much attention to succession planning as it should have.

We consider it a positive development that the bank is gradually rebuilding its talent development capabilities. This is also an important topic for the Supervisory Board. The Selection and Nomination Committee regularly talks to people at the level below the Executive Board which we believe having a good future at the bank. We get to know them, ask what they are looking for and discuss their personal development goals with them. This way, we are rebuilding a pool of people potentially ready for higher positions, which is very important for the continued success of the bank.”

Let’s zoom in on the Supervisory Board. Did you make any changes to your own way of working last year?

“An important change was our decision to establish a separate committee focusing exclusively on sustainability. This committee, which is chaired by my new colleague Femke de Vries, shows the importance of the sustainability aspects of the bank’s strategy and the impact this has on people and the environment. Last year, we also organised our first two team offsites, where members of the Supervisory Board spend a whole day away from the office discussing how we work together as a team and how we view our cooperation with the Executive Board, the regulator and other stakeholders. As all of us attach high value to these offsites, we will continue this approach going forward.”

Last year, you said that people at ABN AMRO should celebrate more. What’s your message to them this year?

“I will continue to say that we should celebrate more. Why? Because we certainly have some successes to celebrate! Look at the decision of the Dutch State to start reducing its shareholding further, our acquisition of BUX or the prizes the bank won in corporate banking and wealth management. People at ABN AMRO tend to say ‘Yes, we have achieved that, but…’ In my view, that’s one of the things in the bank’s culture that should change. People across the bank are doing some incredible things. We should emphasise that more and the best way to do that is to raise the flag and celebrate!”